One glimpse forward. Admitted 'snake' Trump was the 'last President', in traditional meaning, as predicted. Biden as Lucifer ensconced? Causing all to perish or take the Mark of Beast to 'trade' in business / earn a living. MoB is RNA "vaccine", the venom / mark, mandated. 'Deadly' head-wound after a short while, transition period 'in office'. What 'survives' (re-animated) after 3 days, per scripture, will have no more edifices of Biden, 'President'; lawlessness, set free. Fears of religious Luci (taking hold in Rome) or financial Luci (from London) obviated -- Luci will first take hold of the power center (DC, military). The amassed 'troops' (entrenched under false pretenses) are not for or against 'insurrection' but to keep the gov system workers in-place until the unveiling / head-wound, secondly to keep others out. They will remain post innaug. Things not 'going back'.
eastGhost.com with M.A.P.I., Sep 2019.
Several teams attended in 3 groups: inside the Main House, inside the Summer House, outside on the grounds.
Approximately 10:30pm: Interesting, the colorful stationary "orbs" hovering near Liz and Cliff, southeast of Main House, despite no flash with only ambient lighting during long exposure. Numerous reports include communications with young aethereal prankster "Jacob" and sightings of shadow apparitions and the "little girl upstairs".
Gauss meter response, quiet at around 0.1 Gs for most of the night in the Main House, agitated and skyrocketed up to 13 Gs during our singing of Civil War era songs in the Summer House. Meter sat stationary. We took notice: "It was as if ghosts were dancing or whirling about unseen right in front of us."
Liz' copper divining rods were active as usual and responding promptly and clearly to questions posed; copper rods in a sanitized, human-removed apparatus did not respond to any prompting. LASER shadowing, animal boobytraps, and other meters and apparatii went silent/unaffected.
We welcome other investigators to login and add their findings, comments, links.
Thank you, M.A.P.I.; we had a superb time.
Karma demands They must disclose intent to victims
- Edgar Allan Poe: Renowned author whose self-proclaimed greatest, longest, final work is entitled "EUREKA"
- CRIME: EAP was mysteriously poisoned in Baltimore, Catholic stronghold of US; he died promptly, incoherent.
- MOTIVE -- EUREKA confounds if not counters the Jesuits' humanity-minimizing Cosmology of Infinitude, giving the first plainly comprehensible solution to Olbers' contradictive paradox (i.e., how the night sky is dark despite supposed infinitude of stars):
“I design to speak of the Physical, Metaphysical and Mathematical – of the Material and Spiritual Universe – of its Essence, its Origin, its Creation, its Present Condition and its Destiny.”
In Eureka, Poe claimed, among other things, that the universe is finite – in 1848 a finite-aged universe was mere speculation, and adopted a more philosophical phraseology of Newton’s Law of Gravitation, claiming that gravity is nothing but the attraction of every atom to the other atoms.
“Every atom, of every body, attracts every other atom, both of its own and of every other body, with a force which varies inversely as the squares of the distances between the attracting and attracted atom.”
Poe also pondered the question of the Olders’ Paradox. He suggested that the universe is not old enough to fill the sky with light. Is also endless in size; we see only a tiny part of it, and that observable part contains too few stars to fill up the sky with light. Poe knew that light moves extremely quickly but he claimed that there hasn’t been enough time for the light to reach us from farthest reaches of the universe.
“No astronomical fallacy is more untenable, and none has been more pertinaciously adhered to, than that of the absolute illumination of the Universe of Stars. The reasons for limitation, as I have already assigned them, à priori, seem to me unanswerable; but, not to speak of these, observation assures us that there is, in numerous directions around us, certainly, if not in all, a positive limit—or, at the very least, affords us no basis whatever for thinking otherwise. Were the succession of stars endless, then the background of the sky would present us an uniform luminosity, like that displayed by the Galaxy—since there could be absolutely no point, in all that background, at which would not exist a star. The only mode, therefore, in which, under such a state of affairs, we could comprehend the voids which our telescopes find in innumerable directions, would be by supposing the distance of the invisible background so immense that no ray from it has yet been able to reach us at all. That this may be so, who shall venture to deny? I maintain, simply, that we have not even the shadow of a reason for believing that it is so.”
- MEANS -- Jesuits, 'military troops of Vatican', historically known poisoners, vow to "extirpate" Protestants, Freemasons and non-Catholic heretics
- OPPORTUNITY -- Still-touted poker-playing good friend and long-time neighbor of Jesuits
Were these ideas alternately pre-empting and confounding the Jesuits' fledgling cosmological "psyence" silenced by poesoning?
A CURIOUSLY LINGERING COVER-UP --
- Warmth would expectedly welcome any increased discussion and wonder instigated by Poe -- particularly within Poe's own house/museum; instead, U.S. Park Service docents at Poe's house/museum in Philadelphia resoundingly demean EUREKA, deride inquiries.
- EUREKA is suspiciously absent from nearly all publications available at the Poe museum. Signalling need for deeper careful investigation, devious omission hallmarks Jesuit handywork in mislead and mind-control.
Be wary with whom you break bread and libation.
To celebrate this season of boo here are a few nighttime shots, exploratory notes and research findings that together weave an eerie menagerie. Below is the statue of Minerva at Forest Glen, Maryland. The aging structure is the remainder of a 'Spanish Dorm' at the northeast corner of the property. About one-half mile along Minerva's Medusa'd gaze looms the Mormon Temple.
This fascinating complex is steeped in oddity, military and medical intrigues, darkly intertwining and spanning from our nation's founding days to our present. Spooky enough all on its own, but when it's real, and militarily verifiably so, that's what really gets you ...transmogrifying mere goosebumps into palpable fear.
BELOW Statue of Minerva near remainder of Spanish Dorm
Forest Glen was a close-by ecape-destination providing early Washingon, DC residents cool relief in its comparative highlands (DC was in part literally a swamp, hot, muggy, Potomac River in the summer) before it was a premiere girls' finishing school; then it became an Army convalescence home before being used for biowar research ... and then ultimately becoming an expensive housing development (!).
Concerted efforts at reclamation and historical preservation have been ongoing for many years. The property was a failed (or abandoned?) farming thing, then a failed commercial thing, then a failed educational thing, then a failed military thing, and now it's a pseudo military-commercial historical-preservation compound meets high-priced housing collective kinda thing. The depth and twists of its many at-odds juxtapositions and uncanny energies give lasting allure to all things Forest Glen.
Also on the property is a magnificent Spanish Ballroom, an authentic Dutch windmill (sorority house), several other unusual structures, and Maryland's only real Japanese Pagoda.
BELOW Japanese Pagoda, Spanish Ballroom
BELOW Dutch Windmill Sorority House, one of the many fanciful housings for students during the finishing school era of Forest Glen.
BELOW Italian Marble Fountain, a prideful centerpiece long ago drained and silenced; recent restoration efforts have provided new hope of watery resurrection.
Bad deaths alerted by numerous seances undertaken on the property and an unshakably intertwined history of military misery and biowarfare taint the area. The same commander at Frederick Maryland's FORT DETRICK (25 miles to the northwest) is also in-charge of the adjacent Forest Glen Annex and its noxious Walter Reed Army Institute of (biowarfare) Research. By some accounts, the Army spent '7 figures' on work in the woods immediately northwest of the FGA – but exploration revealed only one of 7 bridges was shored-up, not even rebuilt; meanwhile, what are expensively out-of-place: Numerous sink-tubes, filled in, capped, yet having automatic monitoring sensors and electronics, ostensibly 'gas sniffers' but more likely having something to do with potential bio-outbreak-causing leakage from the nation's [publicly-admitted] largest germ warfare lab and production monster sitting right up the hill...
BELOW Path to Expensive Bio Sensors In The Woods Adjacent To BUILDING 503 – "The Walter Reed Army Institute of Research (WRAIR) is the largest biomedical research facility administered by the U.S. Department of Defense."
Totally coincidentally, of course, Maryland's first "outbreak" of West Nile Virus was detected in the woods immediately west of the Forest Glen Annex biowarfare production facility. This hauntingly mirrors the first detected "outbreak" of Lyme Disease in Old Lyme, Connecticut, at the very spot where the ferry landed from Plum Island, the USDA's zoonotical / tick-born disease research facility, also totally coincidental, of course, but that's a whole other intrigue – see the books HIGHER FORM OF KILLING and LAB 257. See also the godless insanity exposed by Dilyana Gaytandzhieva at the AV9 Conference, England in May 2018 ("AV9 - Pentagon Bio-weapons ... EXPOSED!").
BELOW Beta Castle at Forest Glen, sensitives routinely pick-up strong spiritual energies. Washington Post archives confirm a deadly fall from the rooftop in early 1900s. Rods, ouija and guardian-angel communications respond fervently along the path in front of the castle. Reported experiences here have included muffled voices, foreboding of anger, and "stones thrown".
BELOW What was around back in the lower floors, however, gave a totally different kind of eerie chill – animal cages, lab facilities, and what one sensitive described as "an impenetrable veil". Unclassified military records confirmed medical and biowarfare research; nearby massive BUILDING 503 biowar lab echoes these findings.
Regarding the expensive housing uncomfortably nearby, in the scheme of things DC and compared to the still-buried live World War One munitions in DC's initially-pricey Spring Valley neighborhood (on American University land once used by military for testing / proving grounds), namely Mustard, Chlorine and Phosphgene gas munitions -- "yellow cross", "green cross", and "white cross", respectively, named for the markings on the bombshell casings -- wealthy families living within eyesight (and positively within slightest-whiff distance of accidental toxin release) of the nation's largest [publicly-admitted] biowarfare lab and production facility hardly raises any dead. Yet.
Walter Reed Army Institute of Research -- This article is about the U.S. Army medical research institute (not the hospital). Otherwise, see Walter Reed (disambiguation). The Walter Reed Army Institute of Research (WRAIR) is the largest biomedical research facility administered by the U.S...
The Forest Glen area of land was originally owned by the Carroll family, of Founding Father infamy, and it was long ago a tobacco plantation. In those days, Rock Creek, which empties into Washington’s Georgetown near the first lock of the C&O Canal, was much deeper and rapidly flowing; now it is barely a trickle sans rainstorms. Tobacco was harvested and rolled down from the higher ground to the Rock Creek and then floated down to Georgetown upon shallow raft, it is said.
BELOW Moving shadows and phantamasgoric mists appear throughout the property, which is unexpectedly steeply terrain-ful with many intricate bridges, statues, constructs, stone carvings and features hidden by growth, forgotten to time.
The Carroll graves in nearby cemeteries are very interesting to visit with empaths and spiritual friends, even in the daylight but especially as dark waxes. Slave graves long ago covered over (relocated? doubt it) give credence to spine-chilling tales of hauntings, both audible and sightings all over the facilities, including inside the WRAMC Commissary and reported off-official-record by military personnel. If you can imagine "Poltergeist" happening to the military, that gets at the deeper, darker, multi-faceted soul of Forest Glen.
BELOW - Area map of Forest Glen with some highlights marked. Several residents living on the property and nearby have contacted us to confirm these findings and report other experiences. Orbful photographs and wil-o-wisps are common, along with disembodied shrieks at night not attributable to corporeal animals. It's not just 'one or two' but dozens. Over years. Claimants include well-to-do residents and active military personnel.
Regarding the endless amount of military, medical, political, and Occult weirdness that permeates DC and surroundings, you just have to know where to look and who to ask for the good stuff – and that is nearly never any 'official' sources or controlled outlets.
Visit Forest Glen sometime when you get a chance; much of it is open to the public without ID checks. Walk in the woods, bring a camera and some copper divining rods, maybe some dice, an open mind, and at least one unflappable friend of stout heart ...just be careful what you touch and even more careful about what touches you.
Be sure to login and add your pictures, findings and experiences to the organic research / findings / experiences entry on Forest Glen. Same goes for other haunts and attractions collected in our gargantuan haunts database.
Pictures and Experience by Michael
BELOW: Southern end of the plant, at the sharp bend in the Patapsco River behind camera. The burned out and dysfunctional Simkins Plant, latest working occupant of the Thistle Mill complex, is being slowly dismantled, discarded and removed.
“Three deaths here? Yeah, easy. Probably. Defnitely. This place is over one-hundred years old. There’s a lot of heavy machinery and many places to get hurt. Three deaths in one-hundred years is probably an understatement.” That’s one thing our helpful guide had to say about the deaths, injuries and reported hauntings at Simkins Industries Paper Mill http:// eastghost.com/haunt/775/ near old “Hell House” at the sharp bend of the Patapsco River, on River Road in Ilchester, Maryland. The older parts of the plant --the mill onto which the plant was later grafted-- date back to the 1700’s and are over 200 years old.
While our guide had not directly had any “substantially haunted” experiences to speak of, at least one other visitor had, in summertime 2006, suddenly become so “scared and totally creeped out” that he left in quite a rush, abandoning his work and belongings. This has happened several times. Sulky has reported ongoing paranormal experiences, research and subsequent validation of certain facts that would corroborate ghostly experiences.
For my part, while I was down below, between the buildings at the Patapsco River, over the swooshing sound of water endlessly smoothing rocks and the nearby control dam, and the audibly electrifying hum of high voltage transformers, coming from deep within the old plant (and seemingly underground) I heard about one dozen earth-shaking booms, ominous thuds of heavy machinery solidly hitting Earth-coupled surfaces, as well as metal clanking and moving about --it sounded maybe two hammer blows short of the plant being in full operation. Only...no one was working inside. The thuds were powerful and dreadful, and they unmistakably resembled the thuds that Sulky had reported hearing and feeling months earlier (see following report).
BELOW: the “bugs bunny” fire hydrant.
Kimness, up above on the roadway and hillside, heard none of this. Her main concern was taking pictures while avoiding daring cars whizzing by on the quite narrow and twisty River Road.
Knowing what was happening to me within the highenergy electromagnetic feld of the humming transformers, I felt mighty uncomfortable and wanted right away to get further away, out of the magnetic feld, to basal safety. Instead, I set to it and simply walked by the facility, taking pictures all the way. Happily abiding my one stern warning against entering the buildings, I did however get some shots through numerous cracks and open doors.
BELOW: Southern entrance and drive way along the Patapsco River, to frame left.
There were quite clearly within many places to get mangled, deformed, maimed and otherwise seriously harmed. There is nothing nice or forgiving about this place. It made me think of a sleeping but malevolent mechanical giant, still somehow strangely noisy even in awkward, abandoned rest, like an old missile silo, seemingly ready to wake up and swing into action at a moment’s notice, or at least exuding that precipitous aura.
BELOW: Thistle Mill, in better days, circa 1890, Baltimore Historical Society.
The air carries that same Patapsco smell, not necessarily stale but defnitely old and heavy (Day and Night at the Good Church and the Bad Church http://eastghost.com/post/35075). All along the length of the plant, the Earth itself reeks of heavy industrial oil and solvents.
A slip in the mud here would probably leave a remarkably persistent rash and stain and maybe even a chemical burn. There is a large cauldron of badness --tens of thousands of gallons of liquid capacity-- slowly rusting away, no doubt once housing the high-molar solution that unpleasantly decomposed stuff or acted as a reagent in some desired but unnatural process. A thin but apparently deep waterway or canal, impossibly crammed between the older part of the mill and the too nearby River Road, is criss-crossed by a grated steel catwalk that was too shaky to dare. Who knows if it’s even water in the canal.
BELOW: North end of old southern mill building. Notice juxtaposition of original masonry and later additions including gate, fre hydrant, cement blocks.
I heard several dozen dull screams coming from just beyond, or possibly inside, a small wooden shanty-looking thing barely standing several dozen yards further north than I was willing to tread. It was defnitely some mammal; I’m not ruling out human, though possibly a prank. Several times in the Patapsco River valley I’ve had the very uncanny feeling of not being alone, of just barely hearing and/or seeing things not quite possible to clearly make out or identify one way or the other --was that a person screaming for help or calling out to a friend, or was it a fox or bird or cat or something, or was it just nothing, or really something worse?
BELOW: Pipe support catwalk carried energy.
I also thought I’d glimpsed a few “ﬂashes,” unexpected because everywhere nearby, given a long enough glance, was clearly deserted, except for the few cars ﬂying by on the road above, out of earshot and almost out of sight. It’s the frequent but ﬂeeting “whatwas-that?!” glimpses that getcha.
At the furthest-north end of the “mill complex” is a rotting wooden shack that exudes red light. Maybe it’s a cue to stay away; maybe it’s for the fre department should the hulk spontaneously reignite itself. I did not approach its slightly-ajar door. In any case, fre clearly can not kill or reclaim this place; there is too much stone and metal here, too many chemicals, too much history, maybe too many spirits.
BELOW: Oil-fred power plant, directly across Patapsco River and pipe support catwalk.
The tall, original mill structure has various windows, mostly with broken-out panes. Severals sets of stairs and ladders climb at weird angles and unlikely bends. The whole thing is hodge-podge, you can tell, built and twisted as needed over too many years.
BELOW: A glimpse inside the machine shop. Notice the unprotected nature of the chains, pulleys and heavy machinery. Not a safe looking place to work. This area felt the most repulsive to me.
There are apparently one and one-half “ﬂoors” in the long, triangularly-tipped “sawtooth” buildings to the south (what purpose does that roof serve, anyway?); three ﬂoors in most of the mid-section; and probably at least fve ﬂoors in the tallest portions furthest north. It’s unclear what’s rotted away, but I’d bet, given all the broken windows, that it’s treacherous inside. There is something under the loading dock at the machine room. It hisses just above the whisper of the river.
BELOW: A peek inside the machine room. An oppressive feeling came from the machine shop, to the left out of frame.
There were no cats or birds or wildlife of any kind that I could hear, see or otherwise sense. Except for the tired settling sounds of the buildings, the spooky electromechanical hum, and the burbling of the river water, it was spooky-quiet.
Water still runs in a steady, silent trickle from a frehose connector, the one of three without long-ago crinkled hoses that run off to nowhere.
BELOW: Loading dock at machine shop building.
It’s strange to see the obviously very old stonework of the original mill buildings patched with modern brickwork and cinder-block build-ins covering over old openings. It’s sad, in a way, how the still-beautiful build quality of the historical mill was architecturally defaced decades ago. They defnitely do not build them like that anymore. To the real craftsmanship, the unwelcome additions look as cheap as grey bondo on a jet-black Mercedes.
BELOW: Closer look into machine room.
A bright-red fire hydrant is here, tucked half-underneath the mill and built-around in a way somewhat reminiscent of that Bugs Bunny episode in which the tall offce building was built with a small semi-circle all up its length, above the rabbit hole. I wonder why they didn’t just move the dang waterpipe and not cut away the mill’s massive foundation!?
BELOW: Peculiar, hallmark rooftop, from River Road.
A fire extinguisher sits out in the middle of the muddy dirt passage that’s barely wide enough for two eighteen-wheelers inched side-by-side. Old wood. Old nails. Old pipes. Pulleys and girders and chains and everywhere jagged steely things. An angry, old blue industrial water pump sits with its chrome-shiny but malicious looking screw-blade propeller still attached to strong but stained stainless-steel pipe. I wonder if mashed paper pulp sludge once ﬂowed inside; the mill was apparently, in its fnal life, used for paper recycling. Yuck.
BELOW: Looking north along the entrance driveway.
I had a strange feeling (both times that I passed it) of uneasiness, like I was being watched, from within the garage. Maybe it was just heebies from the way that, despite its totally open doors, the blackness abruptly flled the cavernous interior like tar. Photonegative shots of the interior didn’t reveal anything strange, though it sure felt unwholesome there. I’m glad that feeling stayed in the garage.
BELOW: Simkins Paper Mill, at the site of the old Thistle Mill, sometime in early Spring, 2006, as seen from several locations along River Rd. Picture courtesy of SolarAngel.
The river banks have been fortifed by cement-lattice work on both sides. The river is probably about 50 feet wide here and only a few feet deep at most. However, the banks are maybe ten feet down to the waterline. There is a depth stick for measuring ﬂoodwaters, and “15 feet” was marked slightly below my eye level. The stick was gunky-dirty-wet, like it was not so long ago wholly submerged. Just across the river and up are the train tracks, and above them is the former site of “Hell House,” old St. Mary’s College at Ilchester.
BELOW: Simkins Paper Mill, at the site of the old Thistle Mill, sometime in early Spring, 2006, as seen from several locations along River Rd. Picture courtesy of SolarAngel.
I got a very unusual picture of the building across the river. It was getting dark, I was shooting handheld, and somehow I managed a shot in which the foreground is in focus but the motionless background is motion blurred. Weird, but there it is.
The plant is possibly being disassembled, piece by piece. There are half-a-dozen large dumpsters, halffull with all sorts of pipes and gizmos and chunks of machinery. Hopefully the mill will be saved as an historically signifcant site.
BELOW: Simkins Paper Mill, at the site of the old Thistle Mill, sometime in early Spring, 2006, as seen from several locations along River Rd. Picture courtesy of SolarAngel.
About half-way down the length of the buildings, a ricketylooking steel tram- or walkway crosses from the mill rooftop over the river and to another building on the far side that looks like an enlarged m a c h i n e g u n bunker. The bridge formed a sort of invisible boundary; I didn’t like crossing under it, so many dozens of feet overhead --it made me feel like a black cat slyly crossing under a ladder, half-expecting for the inevitable worst. Maybe this “bunker” was to keep the workers in line, inahling fumes and toiling away! Probably it’s just an extension of the processing plant. Numerous large signs warn of possible hearing damage; blindness from regarding ultraviolet arc welders, and the ever-present dangers of forgetfulness. A misstep could literally be deadly.
It’s an effective choice of words: I kept thinking about the “life changing accidents” that Sulky mentioned in his research. This isn’t some collection of workshop bandsaws; machinery herein is as heavy-duty as heavy-duty comes. Even keeping myself safely several feet outside the buildings and the realm of the dormant but still fearful machines, I was very aware of my every footstep and even of the dangling pullcords on my jacket. Silly, I know. But, if you’ve been around heavy equipment, you understand what I mean; there is no such thing as a second chance, and even while standing absolutely motionless you still think twice before making the slightest move. That oppressive fear of what-if literally impedes motion on a moment-by-moment basis, and it would have taken very much “getting used to,” I imagine, to have been an effective employee here, instead of a molasses-mannequin.
BELOW: Saint Mary’s College at Ilchester, popularly “Hell House,” now demolished, Gray’s Mill at bottom right, and Thistle Mill at bottom center.
“Extreme” might describe the pain of being crushed to death between a 3,000-pound roll of paper and ‘a machine known as a rewinder,’ especially if it was operating. Mill accidents must be truly terrible events, life changing even to those who survive in witness. I wondered what would actually happen if someone’s loose scarf got wound up in the belt of a car engine’s alternator; clearly it would violently jerk the entire torso down, but would the result be immediate decapitation, or would the scarf somehow rip frst? You know the engine would not stop. It’s thoughts and echoes of that same kind that I sensed most here.
BELOW: Idyllic view of railroad bridge and Patapsco River, just after the bend and downriver from Thistle Mill. Notice exaggerated features and perspective. Picture courtesy of Sulky.
Despite the lingering smell of chemicals and fear, there is a peculiar draw to this area. The sharp 90-degree bend of the Patapsco River here in Ilchester, once literally under the shadow of Hell House, down-river and down-hill from nearly everything, seems to be some sort of “spirit trap” that snags and holds history in a way that is unlike anywhere else.
# # #
Investigation and Experience by Sulky / Lon Strickler / Phantoms & Monsters Blog
BELOW: Thistle Mill, main building, in the 1940s when it was used primarily to produce “cotton duck” a heavy, plain woven cotton fabric, commonly called canvas. This was well after the mill’s heydey and in the wake of major cotton duck mill closures in Hartford, Connecticut and other areas in the north. Picture courtesy of Baltimore Historical Society.
I investigated an inquiry several years ago at the Simkins Industries, Inc. plant in Ilchester, MD. Some employees had noticed an orb of “dancing” light about 10 inches in diameter occasionally move slowly right to left along a wall in the beater room section of the plant. The sightings were usually in the early evening hours but always in the same area.
An employee and I entered the complex while the plant was down for weekend servicing. I must say that I noticed several spirits within this plant. There had been some deaths (natural and accidental) in the plant and some were evident, in particular an older man who insisted on following us around. His presence was very strong and somewhat disturbing since my feeling was that his death came at his own hand. The name I sensed was “Buzzard” are something similar. I don’t know if it was a nickname or his actual surname in life. We reached the area of the orb sighting and I noticed immediately that the temperature had dropped quickly and remained colder than the surrounding area the entire time I was there.
My perception was that of a man who has died in a piece of machinery (bottomliner pulper) many years before. The name that I sensed was “James” and that he seemed to be in his 30’s. I never witnessed the orb, but I am sure that this was his spirit energy. I attempted to contact “James” through my spiritual guide and seemed to have made some impact. My subsequent inquiry a year or so later with those employees who made the original inquiry concluded that the orb had not been seen and/or reported since.
# # #
Investigation and Experience by Sulky / Lon Strickler / Phantoms & Monsters Blog
BELOW: Gray’s Mill, a contemporary of Thistle Mill, a few thousand feet upriver, has an intertwined and equally interesting history, complete with hauntings and recent investigation, to be covered in a later edition of EGQ.
On Thursday, April 6th, 2006, I assembled a small team to investigate the recent paranormal activity at the Simkins Industries plant located in Ilchester, MD. The plant is located on the Baltimore County side of the Patapsco River at River Rd. near Hilltop Rd. There are remnants of the Ilchester mid-1800’s village still standing, but all the houses are now boarded up. The plant is also deserted due to a major fre on the top level in 2003.
I had received several inquiries from people who had recently been on the property as well as a few queries from former employees. There have been various incidents and reports of phenomena mainly strange lights and sounds. To our knowledge, no other investigations had been made in the plant since it was closed. For the record, we had investigated some paranormal activity in the plant in the early 1990’s and I have reported this previously.
The team consisted of my assistant Cory and two former employees of the plant, Keith andJerry. I brought along 2 digital cameras, 2 EMF meters, a pair of 2-way radios and a laser thermometer. We were able to work our way into the plant through a dock entrance and descended 2 stories into the main beater room area. Because Keith and Jerry knew their way around, I had Cory and Jerry start the investigation to get some baseline EMF readings at various locations throughout the plant and to record any activity. All the power was off in the plant, so I was hoping for solid electro-magnetic readings. I decided to stay in the main beater room area with Keith mainly because I had recent physical limitations that made standing and walking for a sustained period of time impossible. I fgured if Cory found anything, she’d give me a call and Keith could direct me to the area. Before we began, I asked Keith and Jerry not to mention any specifc deaths or injuries that had occurred in the plant. This plant has a long history and reputation for many horrifc work related casualties.
Not too long after we started to look around, I noticed that the images on the digital cameras were not developing though the register on the card indicated that images were there. There was full power in the cameras and the cards were fne, but no images were coming on the screen. That was truly strange because I had never experienced that before and for this to occur with both cameras was very unusual.
Everything was fairly quiet for about 2 hours. I called Cory and she said that nothing remarkable had happened other than she received 1 major EM spike in the machine room dry end and that they were going to walk back to our location. A few minutes later Cory and Jerry returned. Jerry commented that it was very strange that he had not seen or heard any cats in any part of the plant. He stated that the plant was always inundated with cats for the many years he had worked there. Keith stated that he had also noticed it and thought it was very strange. Frankly, up to that time it was eerily quiet. We sat together for about an hour going over her notes and planning out our next moves.
By this time, it was 11:15 pm and we decided to start walking to a few areas that Cory had suggested. We went through an area that I was familiar with from my initial investigation but, strangely, I felt nothing. We continued to walk until we reached the former maintenance department. I started to get a feeling of dread and nausea as well as tightness on my chest. Cory also stated she felt a bit weird. After a few minutes, I asked Cory where she had recorded the EM spike. She said on the ﬂoor below by a machine called a rewinder in the machine room dry end.
We walked down the stairs and entered into the main part of the plant. As soon as I walked through the wide doorway, I felt like something pushed me in the chest… I literally backed up and tried to regain my breath. A few seconds later, we heard a loud thud sound. Each of us looked around not knowing where the sound came from. It seemed to me that something large had hit the ﬂoor but the sound was tempered as if it was in a tunnel. My feeling was that something catastrophic had happened here...the residual energies were coming at me from all directions. Cory was getting erratic EM readings stronger than those she had recorded earlier. I tried to endure the bombardment of energies I was experiencing, but it was getting very hard to deal with. I needed to get out of that area as soon as possible so I could gather my thoughts. I turned around and walked towards the warehouse area so I could sit down and rest. The others soon followed and we took a break.
I asked Jerry to confrm if someone had died in that area, but I didn’t want a name or know how it happened. He stated that at least 2 employees had lost their lives in that specifc area but he was unaware of their names since the deaths occurred before he started employment. Keith confrmed the deaths but he also had no idea of the circumstances or names…only third party information he had heard. I was determined to go back into the machine room and see if I could sense anything from the spirits residing there.
After a bit of a rest, Cory and I walked back into the machine room. As before, I felt pressure on my chest but not to the degree I experience previously. Cory and I held hands and I attempted to contact at least one of these spirits. I immediately felt pain and sorrow…like my life force was draining out of me and I couldn’t stop the inevitable. Then I heard the name “Russell”. It was obvious that this was the person who had been haunting here. I tried to communicate but the sorrow and grieve this spirit was projecting was as intense as I have ever felt. I fear he will remain on this plane and refuse to ever move on.
I decided that I was done here and that we should check out a few other locations within the mill. We spent another 2 hours in the plant taking EM readings and recording some history of the mill from Keith and Jerry. I asked Jerry if he could put me in contact with a former employee who could tell me about any of the people who had died in the plant.
That Sunday, I interviewed a gentleman who wanted to remain anonymous. He had retired from the Simkins plant in the mid-1980’s and had started there when Bartgis Brothers had owned the mill. He confrmed that an employee by the name of Russell Calimer was killed in the machine room in 1977 after a 1-1/2 ton roll of paperboard had slipped off a forklift and crushed him to death against the rewinder. But, I was stunned by the information that was to follow. The employee who attempted to load the paperboard roll and allowed it to slip off was a man by the name of Robert Buzzard. If you read my initial investigation at the Simkins plant, you would recognize that name. I had felt a presence of a spirit who called himself “buzzard”. I had no idea at that time that this was an actual name. As well, I had this feeling that “buzzard” had died by his own hand. It was confrmed that Mr. Buzzard had become so distressed after the accident he decided to retire. Less than a year later, “buzzard” had indeed committed suicide.
I think the plant is worthy of further investigation, but I have a bad feeling about some of the spirits that are there. There are, of course, many residual hauntings (ghosts)....but there may be at least one vortex there and I didn’t like what I was feeling especially in the machine room. For the record, there have been 4 deaths in the plant since 1971....3 in the machine room. As well, there have been several major life altering injuries.
I have a suspicion that someone tried to perform a halfhearted seance or used a Ouiji board in the plant since it closed. There have been all kinds of people hanging around there and the sense I get is that a spirit with some relatively heavy duty malevolence and lingering hatred is moving in and out of a vortex (I was unable to locate a vortex....possible that it was closed when we were there).
The “Russell” spirit we did encounter is a strong one but with a lot of sadness and acts like it is looking for something. We tried to “move it along” but I don’t think we were very successful.
# # #
The following content is reincarnated from a street racing site that unwittingly ignited intense interest in all things paranormal.
"Here is the local story about Hell House. I live half a mile away.
"The site was founded in 1866, and its main building was erected in 1868. It is in Ilchester, Maryland, not too far from Ellicott City. It was a Catholic school; the cardinal had impure thoughts which he acted out on 5 nuns. One nun later told the archbishop, who banished the cardinal. The nuns were promptly killed and found hanging, nude, above an inverted pentagram. More girls and nuns perished and vanished soon thereafter under mysterious circumstances, and the school was closed down in 1972.
"Some say the nuns at the school were practicing satanic rituals, and others say that the cardinal came back to get his revenge. Unfortunately, the school burned down Halloween night in 1997 and authorites still do not know the cause of the fire. Some people have heard screams, girls laughing, and have seen a strange shadowy figure on the premises. There are tunnels underneath with drawings in red of pentagrams and other demonic markings.
"This is not a place to visit alone.
--Ilchester resident, 2004
"Hell House": Story Beneath Ruins
A History of St. Mary's College in Ilchester, MD
Many area residents have seen the tall building rising out of the forest, overlooking the Patapsco River near Ilchester Road. Others have seen or heard of the mysterious old staircase leading up from the road and back into the woods.
Few people know the real story behind these structures, though. The building is what remains of St. Mary's College, a seminary for young men joining a Roman Catholic religious order known as the Redemptorists. The college operated at that site for over a century.
Mary Mannix, former Library Director of the Howard County Historical Society, said that the college is one of the most popular research topics at the Historical Society. Mannix commented that, among Ellicott City topics other than the Patapsco Female Institute, "it's probably the biggest single topic that people come looking for."
The site has played an important role in the history of Ilchester ever since the town was established. Even before St. Mary's College existed, the property's owners figured significantly in the histories of Ellicott City and Ilchester.
Big Plans for Ilchester
In the early 1770s, Joseph, Andrew, and John Ellicott traveled from their homes in Bucks County, Pennsylvania to build a flour mill on the banks of the Patapsco River. The site they selected, of course, came to be known as "Ellicott's Mills," later renamed Ellicott City. The Ellicotts also acquired two miles of land up and down the river from where their mill was located, including present day Ilchester.
George Ellicott, Jr.- a grandson of Andrew Ellicott- had big plans for Ilchester. When the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad was built in 1830, the train passed near his homestead in Ilchester. Ellicott hoped that the town would become a regular stop for the large Western trains.
"He thought this would be a good stop on the railroad for the tourists," explained Joetta Cramm, author of A Pictorial History of Howard County. "That's why he built the 'stone house' here: he was going to operate it as a business."
Ellicott established a tavern in his "stone house," located a few hundred feet from the railroad, and built stairs leading down to the tracks. Though Ilchester seems awfully close to Baltimore to be considered a "countryside resort" by modern standards (just twelve miles away from the train), it was a long enough journey in the middle of the nineteenth century.
However, to Ellicott's chagrin, his tavern didn't become the successful business venture he had envisioned. The B&O Railroad selected Ellicott's Mills as the major stop after Relay, rather than Ilchester. According to Ilchester Memories, a history of St. Mary's College written by Rev. Paul T. Strott in 1957, stopping at Ilchester was "anything but convenient" for the large trains. Until the Ilchester tunnel was built in 1903, the trains had to go around a large hill and follow a sharply curving track. Trains that stopped at Ilchester would lose the momentum they needed to make it around that sharp bend.
According to Cramm, the trains would only stop if a passenger made a specific request to stop get off at Ilchester. Few passengers made that request.
Ellicott eventually decided to sell the property and his failing tavern. This proved difficult, though, due to Ilchester's small size and its inconvenient location for starting a business.
Most Holy Redeemer
The group that eventually bought the property, however, wasn't interested in starting a lucrative business. As Rev. Scott put it in Ilchester Memories, "The qualities that made it unfit for trade made it fit for the purposes [they] had in mind- retirement, study, and prayer."
The Congregation of the Most Holy Redeemer, commonly known as the Redemptorists, was established by St. Alphonsus de Liguori in 1732. The first Redemptorists came to the United States in 1832. By the 1860s, the Redemptorists were looking to establish a Studentate within a reasonable distance of their provincial residence at St. Alphonsus Church in Baltimore.
They decided that Ellicott's 110-acre property would suit their needs quite well. As Rev. Strott put it in Ilchester Memories, "it was looked upon as ideal for recollection and research." Just as important, it was also close to a railroad, so supplies and students could be transported easily.
According to Ilchester Memories, George Ellicott, Jr. and Father Joseph Hempraecht (the Provincial) signed the Contract of Sale on June 12, 1866. The Redemptorists paid $15,000 for the 110-acre site, including Ellicott's stone house and several farm houses. Rev. Joseph Firle celebrated the first mass on August 28, 1866 in a small room on the third floor of the stone house.
After selling the property, George Ellicott, Jr. moved to Ellicott's Mills. In 1867, he became the first mayor of the newly-renamed "Ellicott City."
The Redemptorists quickly set about building the new college. Members of the order designed the four-story "upper house," which was erected in 1867. Classes began in September of 1868.
According to Rev. Strott's account, the first community at the school consisted of 29 people, including three fathers- who made up the entire faculty- and nineteen students.
The college grew quickly. In 1872, the Redemptorists built on to the "lower house" (Ellicott's original stone house), adding a wooden extension containing a chapel. Ten years later, they built a new chapel adjoining the "upper house." Within a few decades, they also added a fifth floor to the upper house.
Cramm estimated that the upper house was probably built to accommodate 100-150 individuals.
The college was initially known as Mount Saint Clemens. In 1879, however, priests installed the "authentic picture" of Our Lady of Perpetual Help in the chapel, as Pope Pious IX had charged the Redemptorists to encourage devotion to St. Mary under the title of "Perpetual Help." When the new chapel in the upper house was dedicated in 1882, the school was renamed St. Mary's College.
So Many Boys
Ardellia Cugle Smith, who still lives near the old seminary, can remember the college at its height. "There were so many boys coming in at that time," she recalled. "They used to be up on the hill...You could see them walking out through the field [to their] grotto up on the hill dedicated to Our Blessed Virgin Mary."
Smith's family has been involved with the Redemptorists from the time that the order bought the property from George Ellicott. Smith's grandparents started working at the college shortly after it opened, with her grandmother doing laundry and her grandfather tending the furnace.
Many other local Catholic families also developed relationships with the Redemptorists at the college. Although the Catholics in Ilchester and nearby towns of Gray's Mills and Thistle were considered parishioners of St. Paul's Church in Ellicott City, many were too poor to travel to Ellicott City each week to attend mass. With the permission of the Archbishop, the Redemptorists ministered to the local residents and allowed them to participate in masses at the college chapel.
As the local Catholic community grew, James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, decided that a parish should be established in Ilchester. On February 12, 1893, the chapel in the lower house was reopened as a parish church dedicated to Our Lady of Perpetual Help.
The parish of Our Lady of Perpetual Help still exists, though in the late 1950s it moved to a more modern facility about a mile south on Ilchester Road. The Redemptorists continued to serve the parish until 1996, when the order turned it over to the Archdiocese of Baltimore.
The Redemptorists continued to operate St. Mary's College through the 1960s, but steadily decreasing numbers of students eventually forced its closing in 1972.
"There were just so few boys coming in," Smith explained. Like many Catholic religious orders, the number of young men entering the Redemptorist order has declined substantially. Smith said that the last class to graduate from St. Mary's consisted of only about ten students.
"I went to the last graduation down there [when] one of the boys invited me," she recalled. "It was really sad."
The Redemptorists sold part of the property to the State of Maryland in 1987, contributing to the Patapsco Valley State Park. The rest of the land was sold to private interests.
Today, little remains of the college's buildings. The lower house- including Ellicott's stone house- was destroyed by a fire on June 14, 1968. According to Cramm, what remained after the fire was torn down, and an unidentifiable rubble pile is all that's left of the structure.
More recently, the upper house was gutted by fire on November 1, 1997.
The history of the college has played a large role in shaping the local area, from its connection with Ellicott City's first mayor to its role in the development of Ilchester.
"I just always enjoyed it because of its relationship with George Ellicott," commented Cramm. "[It's] fascinating."
At the Historical Society, Mary Mannix said that her interest stems from the importance of the college itself.
"It was a major institution here in Howard County," she said. "Not only was it important to the county and to Ellicott City itself, but people came from all over to be educated there. It was one of those buildings, like Patapsco Female [Institute] which, besides being of local interest, had a national reputation."
Nevertheless, amateur historians interested in doing their own research are strongly discouraged from visiting the property itself. What remains of the college's upper and lower houses are located on private property, behind clearly visible "no trespassing" signs.
Cramm has always been careful to make this point clear in her course on local history which she teaches for Howard Community College. "I always told the story about it, but said, 'You have no business going there.'"
The best way to get a view of the remains of the upper house is to hike to an overlook located within the Patapsco Valley State Park on the Baltimore County side of the river. A parking area on Hilltop Road marks the trailhead.
Individuals wishing to learn more about St. Mary's College and its history are encouraged to visit the Howard County Historical Society Library. The library, which is located near the Ellicott City Circuit Court building, is open to the public from noon to 8 p.m. on Tuesdays and from noon to 5 p.m. on Saturdays.
Many say the place is haunted. Others used talk of satanic altars or drug labs hidden within the cavernous old building. And... people sacrificing goats?
Well, not really. These are just rumors surrounding the old St. Mary's College in Ilchester, stories passed around among teenagers from all over the region. The students have a different name for the old seminary too: "Hell House."
These rumors, with their focus on the occult and supernatural, have little basis in reality. The real story, however, is almost as unusual: There's the owner, who allegedly splits his time between his home in India and his apartment complex in Savage. There's the property's caretaker, who apparently has lived for years in the shadow of the old buildings with his rottweilers and a shotgun, chasing off troublemakers. And then there are the vandals and trespassers- mostly teenagers who come to test their bravery or their foolhardiness, to make trouble, drink alcohol, and find out if all those rumors are really true.
"Kids party up there," said Craig Phillips, who lives close by the old seminary. He said he often sees young people en route to the famous hangout; some even ask him for directions to Hell House.
"Whenever I see kids anywhere around here," Phillips explained, "I always warn them. I say, 'Just stay away.'"
Phillips isn't warning them about spirits haunting the old school, however. He's referring to a much more practical concern: Allen Rufus Hudson, the property's caretaker. Hudson- sometimes called "The Hermit" or "The Hilbilly" by the teens- is a prominent figure in most of the stories about Hell House. Hudson has acquired a reputation for chasing trespassers off the property with his rottweilers and his shotgun (which according to one account, is filled with rock salt).
Nonetheless, "I can empathize with him," commented Phillips. "Kids go up all the time and harass the hell out of him, from what I understand."
Even properties near the old seminary sometimes have problems with vandals. Ardellia Cugle Smith, Phillips's neighbor, routinely suffers vandalism on her property. "They have parties down at the bridge," she said, "and we've had our windows blown out and shot out, [our] mailbox blown up..."
Smith said that the police told her to report such problems, but it just happens too frequently for her to call after each incident. "I'd be phoning them all the time," she said.
There's also a possibility that vandals were involved with the fire that burned down the college's main building in the early morning of November 1, 1997- the day after Halloween.
State fire officials labeled the blaze as "suspicious," but the ensuing investigation was inconclusive. At the time, Hudson reported that he had heard a "bang" at midnight, but found nothing when he investigated the sound. At 5 a.m., he heard another "bang," and immediately saw the building in flames.
Officials encountered one juvenile on the scene, who refused to give names but said that there had been other juveniles who had entered the building.
Phillips, however, is pretty sure that teens were responsible for the fire. "On Halloween, it would make sense that that would be it."
Howard County Police Spokesperson Sherry Llewellyn confirmed that the police are aware of the trespassing that occurs on the property. "The mystery of it seems to appeal to young people," she explained. "We do have some concerns that there is some drinking going on there."
However, she stressed that the trespassers are mostly engaging in "general mischief" rather than committing serious offenses.
"'Mischief' is really the key word here," she said. "We're not concerned that there are any serious crimes being committed. But it is a place that appeals to local kids, and we just monitor it to make sure that no one is breaking any laws."
Air of Mystery
The property has long played a key role in the history of Ilchester and of Howard County. George Ellicott, Jr.- who went on to become the first mayor of Ellicott City- tried to develop a tavern on the site in the mid 1800s, but the venture proved a failure when the big trains on the B&O Railroad rarely stopped at Ilchester. The Redemptorists, a Roman Catholic religious order, then bought the property from him in 1866 and built a seminary. They added on to Ellicott's tavern (the "lower house") and also built the much larger "upper house" to accommodate the students. The Redemptorists operated the seminary there from 1868 until 1972, when it closed due to a lack of students. (The school was known as Mount Saint Clemens, until being renamed St. Mary's College in 1882).
More recently, though, the property has fallen into disrepair. Part of the land was sold to the State of Maryland in 1987, becoming part of the Patapsco Valley State Park. The rest- which included the sites of the two buildings- was sold to private interests.
The Roman Catholic parish of Our Lady of Perpetual Help also grew out of Redemptorist ministries at the college. In the late 1950s, the parish moved from its facilities in the college's "lower house" to its current location, about one mile south on Ilchester Road. In 1996, the Redemptorists left the parish as well, taking their histories with them.
Since then, Our Lady of Perpetual Help Parish has been administered by the Archdiocese of Baltimore. And the pastor, Rev. Richard Smith said that he knows nothing about the old property, its history, or its present owners.
"It's existed," he stated, "[and] that's all I know."
In fact, few people know anything about the present owners- including public officials. Since the property is privately owned, little information is available.
State tax assessment records indicate that the current owner is "BCS Limited Partnership," supposedly located on the property itself. The only mailing address is a Savage, MD post office box, "c/o S&S Partnership."
However, several sources named a "Dr. Singh"- in one account, Sateesh Kumar Singh- as the primary owner of the property. Singh was described as the owner either of BCS or of the "Kamakoti and Tirupati Foundation." Singh was also said to own the River Island apartment complex in Savage.
A secretary at River Island reported that the apartment complex is owned by "Kamakoti Properties," and confirmed that a "Dr. Singh" is involved in that company, though she could not confirm Singh's first name. She also indicated that Singh lives both in Savage and in India.
Singh did not respond to repeated requests for an interview.
Phone calls to "Tirupati Investors," also located within the River Island apartment complex, received no response, either.
'He Stays to Himself'
Allen Rufus Hudson, the property's caretaker, is equally enigmatic. According to two local residents, Hudson often refers to the property as "his," even though his claims of ownership are not supported. Hudson's relationship with BCS or with Singh has never been documented publicly.
Some neighbors have never had a problem with Hudson. "I don't know too much about him, because he stays to himself up there," said Smith, whose property borders the old seminary's grounds. "We just wave when he goes past."
"I've really only seen him two or three times," commented Susan Mullendore. "One of those was pleasant enough, one of those we didn't speak at all, and the third one was... intense." In that third encounter, Mullendore reported, Hudson was "very angry" about a pile of dirt and rock on the Mullendores' property, which happened to be located across from Hudson's driveway.
Overall, though, there has been little interaction. As Mullendore put it, "I don't seek him out, and I don't necessarily avoid him, but very little interaction has actually occurred."
On the other hand, Phillips indicated that he had been warned to stay very far away from Hudson. "When I talked to the police -who know him well- I said [that I wished] I could be his ally," explained Phillips, who lives near Hudson's driveway. "I could help out, keep kids away and things. I mentioned that I kind of felt sorry for the guy."
However, police discouraged him from contacting Hudson. "It was explained to me that he's somebody absolutely, positively to stay very clear of," recalled Phillips. "[They said,] don't even begin to try to interact [with him] in any way, shape, or form. So, I've taken their advice."
Hudson has been brought into court at least ten times since 1989, usually facing charges of assault and battery. Prosecutors dropped charges in most of the cases, but Hudson has also been convicted several times.
Hudson himself could not be reached for comment. It is unclear if Hudson is still living on the property or not.
Mary Mannix, Former Library Director of the Howard County Historical Society, said that, before the fire, "We'd get students of various ages, from middle school up to college age, some of whom might have been hanging out or partying down there." She said that some of these researchers had heard there was some sort of "Satanic situation" on the property.
Mannix believes that much of the interest surrounding St. Mary's has been prompted by the old abandoned buildings themselves, combined with the mysterious nature of the owners. "It's privately owned, [and] no one really knows what's going on there," she said. "Essentially, the building was going to waste for years... Also, the fact that it had this mysterious caretaker and it had large dogs barking- that that got people very interested. Because, [people think] obviously, if they don't want you going near it, then there must be something going on there."
Hurley noted that visiting the site, even with the caretaker's permission, was a pretty spooky experience. At that time, Hurley said, Hudson was keeping his dogs inside the upper house. "We could hear the dogs barking in that cavernous, empty building," he recalled. "It was really quite a sound."
Many of the ghost stories that involve the property are notable for their inaccuracy. An account on www.ghostpage.com, a Web site operated by the Ghost Hunters of Baltimore, Intl., identifies "Hell House (Old St. Mary's College" as an "old all girls school that has been abandoned." The account continues, "People from the area that have been able to go there have seen and heard many spirits while visiting."
(Mannix indicated that, for many years, both the Patapsco Female Institute ruins and the old St. Mary's College ruins were known as "Hell House," which may have contributed to this confusion.)
A more elaborate version of the story says that one student at the supposed "all girl" school wrote in her diary about how awful conditions at the school were and how much she wanted to leave. Eventually, according to the story, everyone at the school died of pneumonia. When another group tried to reopen the school, they encountered the ghosts of the girls from before, and began experimenting with "black magic" to keep the spirits at bay.
Local historian Joetta Cramm, author of A Pictorial History of Howard County, has also heard some stories pertaining to what she calls "this supernatural crap." She has heard stories that "for years people have gone out there around Halloween, and waited for the supernatural spirits or whatever."
Cramm is somewhat upset by these rumors, though. "It really disturbed me," she said. "I mean, that was a sacred place."
Nevertheless, the stories persist. And they probably will continue for as long as the buildings remain standing and rumors about the caretaker still circulate.
As Mannix pointed out, the mystery and danger hold a strong appeal to thrill-seekers.
"I know we've had a number of researchers who really were interested because of the fact they were chased off," she commented. "Otherwise, they probably would have walked around, said, 'Hey, that's cool,' and gone about their business. As opposed to going, 'Well! We're going to find out what's going on there! Are they sacrificing goats?'"